@와고바꼈노내가 돈 없으니까 악마지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그건 정신병이고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

자본가들이 자본주의이념아래서 수탈해가는거 노동자들이 폭동 일으켜서 뺐어오자는게 찐 좌파임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노마르크스 주의에서는 자본가가 잉여노동을 시키면 수탈이지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

역사적으로 폭동이 성공하면 혁명이되고 정의가됨 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노잉여노동을 안시킬 수가 없음 그럼 사업체든 투자든 할 이유가 없지 돈을 못버니까 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산사회를 위해서 그런 인간의 폭력성은 감수해야지 어느정도 전체주의적인 이념이니까 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

변화를 위해서 파괴가 있는게 그 이념의 본질은 아니지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노애초에 자유도 인권도 폭동으로 얻었자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

다 계급에 의한 반발로 얻어지는거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노난 마르크스주의가 옳다고 생각안하는데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

애초에 시대상마다 정의가 다른건데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

세상이 공산사회면 그게 정의인거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

봉건사회면 신분이 정의인거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

난 이념만 설명했는데 자본주의도 절대선은 아님 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그니까 그 정의를 바꾸려면 파괴가 필요한거라고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

근데 그게 파괴라고 욕할 수는 없는거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

자유민주주의도 다 폭동과 혁명으로 이루어낸거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그니까 절대적인거는 없다고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노내 말은 이거임 공산주의든 자본주의든 다 폭동과 혁명으로 얻어낸건데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 이념만 봐야지 공산주의는 폭동이기 때문에 비판받아야한다 이게 이상한거 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노폭동과 정의에 대해서 지적했자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그 의도가 머겠음 이거는 현대 시대상에 안맞는 불법적인 행동이고 도덕적이지 않으니까 옳지 못하다를 말한거자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그러므로 공산주의는 틀리다 이거자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노내 말은 이거임 변화를 위해서 파괴가 필요한데 그 파괴가 이념에 맞지 않더라도 틀린게 아니다 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

역사적으로 보면 지금 주류 이념들도 변화할 때 많은 폭력을 수반함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노나는 좌파지지하는게 아닌데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

나는 내 사유재산을 뺐기기 싫어하고 세금 뺐기기 싫은 소시민임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

난 자본주의에 순응하고 그에 맞게 살고 있음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

근데 자본가는 악마가 맞아 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

와고만 봐도 배급견들은 절대 위로 못올라감 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

미네랄 많은 애들은 계속 불리고 토사장들은 몇 십억미네랄을 가지고 있음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이 양극화가 자본가들을 악마로 보이게 만드는거임 돈의 악마 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노당연히 모든건 없지 폭력 없이 실현시키려한게 사회주의자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노시민이 이겼으니까 시민이 주인이 된 세상이 온거자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

지금 현대 이념은 다 프랑스 혁명에서 시작된거자나 그게 정의가 됐고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

왜 갑자기 모든을 말하는건지 모르겠네 난 그냥 너가 계속 곡해해서 말 꼬투리 잡는걸로 밖에 안보임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노자꾸 꼬투리 잡노 내가 말한 사회주의는 민주주의 공화정에서 정치를 통해서 하는 사회주의를 말하는거자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

시대 흐름상 공산주의 다음에 온건한 의미로 사회주의를 만든건데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

범주 얘기는 ㄹㅇ 꼬투리잡기지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노공산주의랑 사회주의를 구분한 이상 공산주의를 급진적으로 보고 사회주의를 온건하게 보는게 통상적인 생각이긴한데 해명했으니까 됐지? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노애초에 경제학에 학파도 ㅈㄴ 많고 이념도 ㅈㄴ 많은데 맞고 틀리고가 어딨음 아직 다 실증 안된거 뿐이지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 공산주의든 자본주의든 머가 맞고 틀린건지는 알 수 없는거노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

기술 발전이 특이점까지 이뤄진다면 공산사회가 정답이 될 수도 있는거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노먼소린지 모르겠네 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

니가 먼 말을했는데 내가 부정하고 싶어한다는거임? 넌 질문밖에 안했는데 난 그거에 답만했고 질문을 부정함? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

난 니 질문에 대해서 다 해명하고 설명해줬는데 넌 무슨 주장을 했길래 부정을 했다는거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

계속 문답이 너가 질문하고 해명하고가 반복 돼는데 당연히 내 입장에서는 꼬투리 잡는걸로 느껴지지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노밑에 말은 걍 내 주장이고 난 거기에 시민혁명을 예로 들었는데? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그럼 시민혁명이 폭력이 수반됐으니까 민주정은 모순된거임? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노단편적으로만 써서 그렇게 느낀걸 수도 있는데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

아무튼 계급이 귀족에서 자본가로 넘어가고 많은 사람들이 그에 대해 염증을 느끼고 있음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그래서 자본가를 새로운 악마라 표현한거고 이건 일루미나티같은 음모론도 있긴함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

아무튼 내 주장은 실증된것도 없고 정의란게 아직 존재하지 않는 상태다 이거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

아직 역사적 평가를 받기에는 현재진행중이니까 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노다시보니까 내가 첫댓을 오해하게 썼네 본문을 안읽고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

너가 날 좌파로 확정지을만함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노나도 우파였다가 그냥 이념에서 아예 벗어남 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

나도 좌파는 정신병이라 생각하는게 좌파들은 지꺼는 뺏기기 싫은데 남의 꺼는 뺏어서 지 주머니에 넣길 원함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그리고 첨언하면 요새 기술 발전하는 속도 보면 공산주의가 불가능하다고도 생각 안함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

cdbc랑 ai로 중국은 공산주의화 성공할거같음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노일이 사라질듯 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

로마처럼 배급받으면서 살아야지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노처음에 시민혁명으로 민주정이 유행이 됐자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

근데 어떤 나라들은 그런 흐름에 폭력없이 이뤄냈을 수도 있지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 역사적으로 큰 이념이나 정의가 태동할 때는 거의 폭동이 일어났다는 얘기임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노사회주의는 늦게 나온 말이고 공산주의가 처음 나옴 이 때는 공산국가 만들겠다고 막 프롤레타리아 혁명 일으키고 선동하고 그러고 다님 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그 이념에 공산주의자들이 생기고 그 운동가들이 사회주의란 말을 쓰게됨 아무래도 제도들이 생기고 나서 만들어진거라 좀 온건하고 체제를 따름 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

너가 꼬투리 잡을까봐 다에서 거의로 바꿈 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그냥 추가로 더 말하면 귀족에서 자본가로 그냥 소시민들을 수탈하던 사람이 교체된거 뿐이다라고 보는 시각에 동의하는편임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노계급론분화해서보면 그럴수도 있지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

아무튼 나는 시민혁명도 권력의 이동을 왕,귀족에서 그냥 자본가로 옮긴거라고 봄 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그 때 프랑스 통치 했던게 자본가들이였음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노너가 계급론을 이해한거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노나는 레닌이 말한 낮은 단계의 공산주의 의미로 말한거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

실제로 공산당과 사회당은 다른성격을 띄자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

역사적인 용어 해석 차이 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그래 용어는 안중요함 누가 말하냐 시대에 따라 계속 바뀌니까 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

사실 공산주의도 권력자가 있는 순간 그토록 싫어하는 왕, 귀족, 자본가랑 다를게 없지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 권력의 이동일 뿐임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노시민혁명 재밌는거 알려줌 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

피흘리고 혁명을 성공시킨건 소시민들이였는데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

권력은 자본가들이 다 가져감 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

머 이 글 쓰면 또 뜬금없이 왜 이런말하냐하겠지만 걍 내가 이런 생각을 하는 배경을 말해주는거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노결국 중산층들이 수탈당하고 통나무드는 세상임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이건 천년의 역사동안 안변했노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그건 노동에 대한 세금이고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

진짜 자본가들은 세금 안내 그게 자본주의의 맹점임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

노동소득을 많이 버는 부유층들이 중산층임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

얘네가 세금 다 때려맞고 통나무들지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노결국 현대 민주주의에서는 신자유주의 vs 케인즈인데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이건 나도 모르겠음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

문재앙이 씹새끼인거만 앎 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노근데 문재앙은 진짜 쓰레기임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이건 케인즈 얘기긴한데 하기 귀찮노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 나라에서 돈 푸는 목적이 고용과 성장을 위해서 하는게 케인즈 주의인데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이 씹새는 소득주도성장이라는 이상한거 가져와서 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

돈을 푸는데 고용을 씹창낸 천하의 쓰레기임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노뉴딜정책을하는데 고용을 씹창낸거라보면됨 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노자본가가 머가 힘듦 그냥 돈만 넣으면 알아서 벌어주는데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

나도 이제 글 안쓸게 할 일 있어서 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노내 기준으로 물햄은 자본가가 아님 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

로스차일드같은 유대인 얘네지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

물햄도 그냥 소시민중 하나노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그리고 내가 소시민이기 때문에 자본가를 싫어하는건 당연한 감정임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

나도 지배층 위치였으면 내 자리에 못오게 견제 ㅈㄴ했지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

여기서 말하는 자본가는 악마라 칭한 자본가임 찐 권력자들 연준의 주인들 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노솔직히 졸부들을 자본가라하긴 좀 그렇지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노ㅇㅇ 그사람들이 권력을 얻고 자본가가 된 시점이 있겠지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

근데 대부분 비윤리적인 일들이 많았음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

괜히 일루미나티거리면서 악마 숭배한다는게 아님 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

전쟁도 ㅈㄴ 일으키고 마약도 ㅈㄴ 뿌림 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노동인도회사만 봐도 팩트인데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

나는 정실자본주의에 속하는 애들을 자본가로 봄 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노자본주의란게 결국 머든 싸게 사서 비싸게 팔아야 자본이 불고 커지는거라 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

규모의 차이지 결국 사기임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

옛날에는 자본주의를 통제하는 법이 없어서 사기가 더 심했음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노마약전쟁은 알거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

재밌는게 얘네는 내부자정보로 미리 정보를 알아서 미래를 알고 투자나 공매도를함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

근데 이게 지금은 법으로 통제되는 것들임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이런식으로 자산을 불려와서 지금 연준까지 만들고 세계를 지배중임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노걔네는 공산국가로 실패한 나라들이자나 걔네는 공산국가 성공 못시키고 자유진영에 패배한거지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

결국 생산 ㅈ박은 나라가 공산화하면 망한다는 실패 사례임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노아직 현재 진행중이라 모르지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

점점 자유진영에서 사회주의를 받아들이고 있는거보면 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

나는 무조건 안된다라고는 안봄 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노자본주의가 수정되고 법으로 통제되듯이 공산주의도 그렇게 스며드는거지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산주의자들이 설계한게 지들 나라들은 ㅈ망했으니까 결국 자본주의의 부채로 공산화를 만들려하는거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

복지, 연금 제도가 잘 뜯어보면 부채를 낄 수록 후대에 세율이 올라가서 결국 공산화 엔딩임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노자본주의를 비판한다고 공산주의자가 아님 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노아니 갑자기 내가 공산주의를 원하는 사람으로 보노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 자본주의나 공산주의나 둘 다 옳은게 자명한 이념이 아니란거지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이게 옳다 저게 옳다가 확실했으면 연구는 왜 하고 여러가지 분파로 나뉨 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노너무 이분법적 사고인게 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

너도 자본주의가 완벽하지 않다 했자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그래서 공산주의도 하나의 대안으로 나왔던거지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

수정자본주의든 고전으로 돌아가 신자유주의든 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

다 대안인거임 근데 여기서 머가 옳다고 확신할 수 없는 상태라고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

현대에 와서 공정해지게 더 법으로 통제하고 사회주의를 섞고 하는 등으로 하는거지 자본가가 너무나 유리하니까 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노아니 계속 자본주의 비판하고 있는데 갑자기 공산주의 얘기가 나오자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그러니까 자본주의 비판하면 공산주의자다라는 이분법적 사고지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

내가 공산주의의 좋은 점을 설명한적이 없는데 머가 옹호란거임? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

오히려 자꾸 너가 주제를 벗어나서 자꾸 딴소리하는거같은데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노근데 너한테 궁금한게 북한 러시아 중국이 우리나라보다 소시민들이 살기 좋아보여? 

이거부터 맥락에 안맞는 말 이런 것들 ㅈㄴ 많았는데 딴소리는 너가 다 이니시 건거야 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

너가 딴소리하고 그거 답했더니 왜 지가 물어본거는 쏙빼고 딴소리함? 이러면 어이없지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노정실자본주의에 해당하는 애들 그냥 시민혁명을 자본혁명이라 표현할게 자본혁명 이후로 쭉 권력을 잡고 있는 집단 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노신자유주의와 케인즈주의 설명임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산주의가 아니라 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그걸 이분법적 사고라하는거노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노꼬투리는 ㅅㅂ 케인즈보고 공산주의 ㅇㅈㄹ ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이분법적 사고 맞노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노저기요 자본주의 비판과 대안으로 나온게 공산주의 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

자유진영에서는 신자유주의랑 케인즈가 비판과 대안으로 나온거 ㅇㅋ? 그둘이 지금 대립중이고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

고로 내가 자본주의를 비판한다고 공산주의자로 몰고가는게 안된다는거지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

니가 공산주의를 원하는 이유는 뭐야? 공산주의가 자본주의 보다 좋다고 생각하는 이유

여기서 애초에 너가 딴소리를 한거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노근데 저게 옹호임? 성공할 수 있다고 한게? 고작 가져온게 저거임? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산주의가 가능할 수도 있다한게 공산주의를 해야한다랑 같다고 봄? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노케인즈주의란게 보통 자본주의에 사회주의 제도인 복지나 이런거 가져온거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

케인즈주의자를 빨갱이라하는걸 보통 극우라함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노아 수정자본주의를 설명했다고 공산주의자라고? 그럼 그냥 ㅅㅂ 공산주의자 할게 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그럼 루스밸트도 공산주의자하자 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

현대에 와서 공정해지게 더 법으로 통제하고 사회주의를 섞고 하는 등으로 하는거지 자본가가 너무나 유리하니까 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이게 어떻게 공산주의 옹호냐 어이가 없네 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노근데 여기서 케인즈 주의에 음모론이 있긴함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산주의의 초석으로 부유한 자유 진영 국가들을 잠식하려는 속셈 그건 위에 설명해놓긴함 복지제도의 공산화 가능성 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노니가 공산주의를 원하는 이유는 뭐야? 공산주의가 자본주의 보다 좋다고 생각하는 이유

이게? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

걍 이분법적 사고 맞자나 자본주의 아니면 공산주의라 생각해서 이런 질문을 한거자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 몰랐으면 몰랐다고 해줘 이제는 쓸모 없는 논쟁에 우기기인거 알자나 나는 다 해명했고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산진영 자유진영 다 설명해줬자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그니까 설명해줌 현대 자유진영에서는 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

작은 정부 vs 큰 정부 이걸로 대립해서 싸우고 있고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

세계적으로 보면 공산진영 vs 자유진영으로 크게 나눠서 싸운다 이거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

여기에 해당 안되는 애들을 3세계라하는거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

내가 말한 것들이 자유진영에서 대립에 해당하는 말들이라 걍 너가 모른거임 공산주의랑 관련 없어 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 짜여진 판 안에서 이념전쟁하는거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

옳고 그름은 아직 역사가 확정난게 아니라 알 수 없다라는게 내 주장 ㅇㅋ? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그리고 이념이란건 과거에는 틀리고 미래에는 맞을 수 있다라는 것도 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그럼 왜 케인즈주의를 옹호하느냐고 해야지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산주의를 옹호한다하면 안되는거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그리고 나는 두 진영을 모두 말했는데 왜 케인즈주의만 물고 늘어지는지 몰겟음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

신자유주의도 충분히 얘기한거같은데 법과 제도로써 통제한다고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노윗글에 대한 답글은 아니지? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 니 방식대로 해야지 이해할거같아서 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

윗글보면 왜 이분법적 사고라는 말이 나왔는지 이해할거라 믿을게 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그니까 자유진영 공산진영 이렇게 두개만 있는게 아니라 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그 안에서 스팩트럼이 존재하는건데 난 분명 자유진영 내에서 둘 다 말해줬는데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

갑자기 공산주의를 원하고 공산주의가 자본주의보다 나은 이유가 머냐고 물어보면 당황스럽지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산주의 자본주의 두가지만 있는데 아니라고!! ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그니까 설명해줌 현대 자유진영에서는 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

작은 정부 vs 큰 정부 이걸로 대립해서 싸우고 있고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

세계적으로 보면 공산진영 vs 자유진영으로 크게 나눠서 싸운다 이거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

여기에 해당 안되는 애들을 3세계라하는거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

내가 말한 것들이 자유진영에서 대립에 해당하는 말들이라 걍 너가 모른거임 공산주의랑 관련 없어 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 짜여진 판 안에서 이념전쟁하는거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

옳고 그름은 아직 역사가 확정난게 아니라 알 수 없다라는게 내 주장 ㅇㅋ? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그리고 이념이란건 과거에는 틀리고 미래에는 맞을 수 있다라는 것도 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이정도면 설명이 됐을거라 생각함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노먼저 법과 통제는 공산주의가 아님 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

복지가 사회주의에서 가져온거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이건 미국과 유럽에서 대공황으로 자본주의가 실패한 역사를 봐야하는거노 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그래서 니 말에 의도는 완전 순결한 고전 자본주의에서 공산주의를 섞은게 왜 좋은지를 물어본거임? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노법과 통제<< 이건 신자유주의에서 필요하단거임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

왜냐면 자본주의에서는 정보의 불균형, 시세조작등 부정이 발생하는데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

시장을 내버려두면 이런 불공정행위에대해서 통제를 못함 그래서 자유와 공정을 중요시하려면 법이 필요하단거 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노복지는 그냥 돈풀고 고용늘리고 경제 성장시키면 유동성이 늘어서 공황을 극복할 수 있다 이런거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

사회보장은 인권이라 경제랑은 관련 없긴함 걍 돈푸는 관점에서 본거 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노통제는 법치를 얘기함 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

극한의 자유방임을 생각하는건 아니지? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노나는 원론적인 얘기들로 한거같은데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

어케 받아들인지 도저히 모르겠음 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

케인즈주의랑 신자유주의보고 공산주의를 옹호하고 좋아하냐는 말을 처음들어봐서 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

또 관련 없다하면 섞인거라 공산주의라 옹호라 하겠지? 그냥 그런걸로 하자 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

내가 니 세상에 맞출게 그냥 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그냥 현타가 ㅈㄴ 오는거야 통제가 어떻게 공산주의에서 온거야 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

공산주의가 있기 전부터 법치랑 국가는 존재했어 ;; ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 너가 사고가 ㅈㄴ게 유연한거라 생각할게 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그려 그려 사고 ㅈㄴ 유연하네 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

내가 말한 공산주의는 마르크스 레닌이 만든 공산주의를 말한겨 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노아니 만물 자본주의 만물 공산주의자나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

자유 평등은 공산주의 자본주의에서 온 이념이 아니고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

프랑스 혁명에서 온 이념임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

통제도 법치에서 온거고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그럼 타인의 자유를 침해하지 않는한에서 이런 통제나 법도 공산주의로 봐야됨? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

나도 이제 이런 얘기하기 싫은게 ㅅㅂ 이러면 또 용어에 집착한다 좁게본다 이럴거 같아서야 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

난 최대한 원론적으로 얘기하려하는데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

너가 너무 크게 보고 있는거 아님? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그리고 자꾸 이런거에 집착하는거 의미가 없다니까 난 내가 공산주의랑 관련없는 내용을 말했다고 해명 다했고 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

왜 이런거에 집착하는거야 자꾸 현타오게 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노그려 그려 사고가 ㅈㄴ 유연하네 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 나는 자유 진영에서 큰 두개의 축이 대립한다는걸 말하고 싶었던거노 공산주의랑 관계 없이 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

이정도면 원론적인 얘기지? ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노너도 화났느니 어쨌느니 계속 말마다 자위해놓고 왜그래 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

그냥 케인즈주의자 신자유주의자들한테 가서 왜 공산주의 좋아하고 옹호하냐고 해봐 무슨 소리 듣나 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

안타까운게 이쯤 되면 너도 찾아봤을텐데 공산주의랑 관련 없는거 알았겠지 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

도대체 무슨 답을 듣고 싶은거니 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노사고가 유연하다고 비꼰거 사과할게 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

왜 그렇게 느꼈냐면 케인즈랑 신자유주의랑 공산주의를 자꾸 엮어서 그냥 내 입장에서는 사고가 ㅈㄴ 유연해보인겨 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@알고씨불니가 덜떨어진거같은데.. 좌빨이 무슨법안을 발의하는진아나..?
공산주의그자첸데? ㅋㅋ 덜떨어진새기

@천국의계단씨볼 좌파 우파 왜 구별하거 싸우지 모르겠네

걍 니 하고 니 가족한테 유리한 정권 지지해

니 신념 말고 임마

니 논리이면 유렵 복지 국가는 공산주의 그 자체냐?

@알고씨불빨갱아 대한민국에서 좀 꺼져라ㅋ 

@부활한한물대표님은 따지고보면 케인즈의 필요성을 인정한 신자유주의자인데 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

어케보면 우파 내전이네요 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

@와고바꼈노ㄴㄴ접지마 

@와고바꼈노쭉봤는데 니말이 맞는거같아 
미네랄좀 빌려줄수있을까?

@와고바꼈노너가맞음 좌파는 간첩마인드임